My Delight with Sarah Bartel

Advice for Newlyweds: What Every Catholic Woman Should Know About Sex with Bridget Busacker, Part 1

• Nathan Bartel

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Intimacy Insights for Brides-to-Be and Newlyweds: Expert Advice from Bridget Busacker

In this episode, I interview my lovely friend Bridget Busacker, founder of Managing Your Fertility, to chat about what we would tell newlywed or engaged women about sex and marriage. Join us as we imagine taking a bride-to-be out for coffee and consider what we would tell her about the importance of communication, the essential role of foreplay, handling discomfort, and why it's so important a couple work together to make it a mutually enjoyable experience.  We share stories and practical tips to help build a joyful and connected intimate life. 

00:00 Introduction to Bridget Busacker and Her Mission
00:45 Discussing the Newlywed Intimacy Blueprint Course
01:40 Advice for a Soon-to-be Married Woman
03:31 Practical Tips for Intimacy and Foreplay
15:00 Importance of Communication in Marriage
19:36 Addressing Pain and Discomfort During Intercourse
25:20 The Significance of Mutual Pleasure
26:24 Conclusion and Final Thoughts


Links:

Free Enhancing Marital Intimacy Guide for Catholic Women: 9 Skills for Body, Mind, and Spirit (for married and engaged women)


I am so delighted to have my friend Bridget Boosacker with me to discuss advice we would give a newlywed or engaged woman about sex and marriage. Bridget Boosacker is founder of Managing Your Fertility, an online one stop shop of fertility awareness resources for women and couples. Bridget helps women step boldly into their womanhood by being unafraid of their cycles and bodies. Embracing their reproductive health in all its glory and messiness. She's on a mission to integrate faith and science through compassion and connection with her website, courses, podcasts, writing, and speaking engagements. Bridget is married to David and together they have three sweet girls where they live out the beautiful mess of NFP and marriage together every day. Can you tell us a bit about the course that you're working on right now to specifically to help women prepare for sex and marriage? Yes, I'm so excited to be with you today, Sarah. It's always so much fun to record episodes with you and I love how much you are. You're just so good at articulating the specifics that I think women really want to know and hear about, but in a way that, you know, it's not overwhelming. It's not shocking. It's so sensitive to where people are at while also keeping it real. And I think that is just so needed. I wish I had had you when I was newly engaged and first married trying to navigate. I'll just the ins and outs, trying to figure it out, trying to make sense of how this is supposed to look like to have great intimacy and sex life in marriage. I've been married 24 years and I didn't know the things that I know now when I was first married and I know you've learned a lot as well in your years of marriage. And when we were talking about this episode, we were thinking like, what would we say? We have this nice Catholic girl out to brunch and she's going to get married in a few weeks. Her wedding is like next month. What do we need to tell her about sex in marriage? Because she wants to know she is asking the questions and wants to know how this all works. So I have the newlywed intimacy blueprint course that I am working on right now because I feel so much for that woman that has all the questions and she isn't looking for the, you'll figure it out. It's going to get better with time. It's like, those are great sentiments, but like you might actually have really specific questions like I did. So I really, have been working on and designing this based on just the needs that I. had when I was eight years ago, when I was like engaged and trying to figure it out. And then just in the conversations I've had online with different women, you know, messaging me on Instagram, sending me emails, having specific questions, that they're nervous about sex or they're scared about something, or they're not sure how do they change their mindset, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, like, I mean, there's just so many different examples that. Really inspired me to say, okay, I want to put this in a space where someone can go and they can go back to the resource and they can get the specific answers to their questions because I wish I could, take the time to answer all the messages. But it's just not feasible, right? Now you can direct them to this beautiful course you're putting together. Yes. Yes. And there are so many backgrounds a woman might have as she's coming into marriage. But let's assume this girl that we're having out to brunch or who's asked us, she's begged us. She's like, you ladies, Sarah and Bridget. Let's go out to brunch because I have all the questions for you. Let's say she's like 24 and she has not had sex before. She saved sex for marriage. She knows theology, the body. She knows the beauty that is intended. You know that how this, is a reflection of God's love and, believes the church's teachings. But she needs to know about like how this works on a practical level. She's convinced, you know, she's all in for wanting to follow the church, but like, so what do you do? So I have some things in mind that, I would want to tell her and I'm sure you do too. So let's start as we've, we placed our lunch order, and the waiter is far, far away. So now really get into it. It's so funny. I just have to say, as you say this, I kind of have chills because that's, that's, that, that was me. I was 24. I was totally on board with church teaching. I was like, yep, I get this. This is supposed to reflect something bigger. We're participating in something bigger, but I had so many. Practical questions. And I also had this kind of like, I know there are practical things that I, that would be helpful for me to know, but I don't even know what to ask. I just know I'm looking for the specifics. And I went through Christopher West good news about sex and marriage Q and a book, and it wasn't really getting to my specifics. So it's just so funny that. You say that cause I'm like, Oh my gosh, that was me. That was me just like trying to reach out to people to be like, what do I do? Cause I think that girl thinks that what sex is, is penis and vagina. I'm just, we're going to say the words. I should put a disclaimer. We're going to say all the words on this podcast. So I think she, that is what she thinks about sex is like, I know what goes where that's what we do, but I don't think she understands the importance of foreplay. And that, that's actually like most of it is the foreplay and that, yeah, I don't think she knows that inner, like penetration alone isn't really what is going to bring the woman pleasure. So many things she may or may not know that she needs to pee afterwards to avoid urinary tract infections. So we're going to make sure to tell her that we're like. We're getting you a cranberry cocktail this morning. And here's why you are going to be drinking cranberry juice for your urinary tract infections. If you don't pee, you know, within 15 minutes, an hour or so after your sweet new husband have sex. So do that. That was like the one thing that I remember, you know, it was actually my aunt. She's also my godmother. She's my fairy godmother at that. She was, I remember her, we went shopping together and she goes, I need to tell you some things about sex and you might be uncomfortable right now, but here are the things you need to know. And I was like, Oh my gosh. Okay. But I thank her every day when I think about her boldness and her willingness to just get real with me and to be that person to say I want you to know these things. And that was the, one of the big things was have a towel. It's going to be messy. And that's okay. That's very normal. And I was like, I won't lie. I was like, Okay. Like it kind of made sense, but it didn't, but it honestly didn't. And that was like, I think now what I'm like, Oh my gosh, I like, I'm glad she told me, but I wish this was something regularly told to women. I know because you know what Bridget, they never show the towel in the movies, right? No. And frankly, like I love rom coms Hallmark, Gossip Girl. Like these were, these were shows that I think really create this, even though they can get kind of, Kinky and kind of weird sexually, especially like Gossip Girl, Lipstick Jungle and those genres of shows, but it really, it didn't actually, it was very sanitized at the same point because it was just all around. It was all around the foreplay and then all of a sudden or no floor foreplay and then someone has this big orgasm. This is great experience. Super clean. It's easy breezy. There's no peeing afterwards. For risk of urinary tract infection and that was the other thing on the sheets, none of it. And I think those are things that like, I think can be, sometimes I think. You know, can be scandalizing to hear. So it's almost like, Oh my gosh, I like, Oh, I don't know. Should we be talking about this? Yes, we need to be, because this is a space in which like, this is the space where we can talk about it. And obviously like your episode guide and your disclaimer will be very clear, like this is not safe for work or for small children. Because we are getting into the specifics here. And I think that, that was the other big thing. I remember my aunt saying was like, you know, you have to figure out different positions. Sometimes like a small pillow might feel comfortable, on your back or like to help you get into a different position that would be more comfortable for you with penetration. And she gifted me a small pillow. Oh, God bless her. I love your answers. Like, Oh, okay. And you know, but it was just like, she was just trying to give me like the baseline, like have a blanket or a really large towel to put underneath you. So you're not thinking about the sheets or you're not thinking about the space you're on. And now I'm like, that was so smart. Like have a sex blanket, you know, if you need a pillow or something like that, and then pee within 30 minutes. So that you avoid a urinary tract infection and make sure that you're hydrating really well, too, just to like flush that out. And then I would also add, too, what I, what I now use is a peri bottle. And I use the Freedom Mama peri bottle that you can buy at Target. And it's not for postpartum care. It's actually because, I had a diagnosis of like a year and a half ago for bacterial vaginosis. And this can also help with yeast infections as well. Like, it was very manageable for me, but one of the things they said was, okay, to help prevent different infections, beyond, your practices with hygiene with sex make sure you're being clean after you have sex and like using a peri bottle can help just like minimizing risk of infection. And I thought it was kind of crazy. I was like, this sounds a little overkill. Like, okay, whatever. And then when I talked to my doula, also my friend, she was like, no, it's actually a really good idea just to keep things clean. And it helps you minimize your risk for BV and yeast infections because they're really common for married women. I had no idea. I felt like saying, I was today years old when I learned that. So that was that. I like put the pieces together, like this, we would have explained. Some of my vaginal discomfort at times related to yeast infections and not, not too sad. So that was another hack that I learned because I don't think every woman needs the peri bottle, but it's good to know, you can add that in, especially if you have these totally, you also might have the detachable showerhead. And so you can kind of rinse off when you're done, you know, and do it that way too. But for For some women, if you're more prone to BV or yeast infections, it's something I think with the hygiene piece, you can make it fast and easy. That was my big thing when I was first married, learning about these things, especially like having a blanket, having to pee. I was like, that sounds like it's just going to interrupt foreplay and like the fun of it. Like, isn't this all going to take away from the fun? And the enjoyment, but then you can go back and cuddle after. And that's something I wanted to mention because I actually in my, my delight course, currently I have, a woman who's been married two years and she's not the first woman to report this. Her new husband always gets up and leaves after sex and goes and takes a shower and they never have cuddle time afterwards. And I'm trying to work with her to help her communicate with her husband. You don't need to get up. Like, the guy does not need to get up and go take a shower. And you know, yes, you need to get up and pee. And then if you have, you know, concerns about Infections that this is something that's come up with you as the woman, then yes, use a peri bottle or whatnot or, or shower, but it's really sweet and special and important. And a lot of the bonding happens after the sex is had and you have the cuddle time and you know, you can give thanks together. It's just all that oxytocin is just flowing. The floodgates are open and God is helping you form that unity. You can pray and give thanks. You can just, you know, be sweet with each other. So I just want to put in a good word for the cuddle time afterwards. And, I think in both cases, these young husbands I'm learning about who are popping up to go shower, they're kind of. introverts. And I'm guessing maybe this is just a very intense interpersonal experience and they kind of want like their own space afterwards. That was like, Oh wait, I was so close, you know, to another human and whatnot. And, but it's important, you know, we form these habits early in our marriage and then just sort of, it becomes a rut, a routine. And I would just be so sad for 30 years to go by. And this couple to be missing out on the cuddle time afterwards repeatedly. So I'm going to tell our brunch lady. Have some cuddles afterwards. And you know, if you get up and go pee, then you can, you can go to sleep together. You can go to sleep naked. Like just, it's very sweet. What can occur in that time afterwards, but we're beginning with the end in mind, which is that you've made love and it's been so lovely and bonding. And now you have the cuddles afterwards. And it doesn't even end there because I like to teach women in my course, my, my delight course that even the next day, the next morning, like. Say, Hey, honey, that was so sweet that time we had last night and, you know, have some kisses and be like, Oh, you were amazing. Or I just so appreciated being with you or, you know, whatever to reflect, because I've had other women tell me, like, we give each other the side eye of shame. Like, Oh, we did, you know, we did the nasty or whatnot. Like they're kind of embarrassed. that they had sex the night before. And there is no call for being embarrassed that you had sex when you're a married couple. And it just, I feel like it prolongs the gift and the blessing and the graces when you reminisce fondly together the next day and give each other thanks. Oh, I love that. Yeah. And that's very true. I think to have the opportunity to reminisce together and you know, like maybe it's you're winking at each other, whatever it is, but to know like you're doing it because it was so good to be together in such an intimate way is so. Awesome. Yeah. And it could be like even a wink, words, a touch, you know, a special, you know, brush of the shoulder or bum grab or something, you know, that you, if you both appreciate that, like don't go out each other in ways that you don't appreciate, but you know, something just to show like you're prolonging the connection. Yeah. I really, I like that with the connection piece because I think that. I just thinking about, okay, I know we're still in the end. We need to go back to the beginning, but just thinking about with the aspect of showering that you were bringing up to, I think, like, just knowing, your options are endless and how you want to figure it out. Like you get to trial and error. I think that's something you can hear. From, you know, you read a particular book or you hear a particular speaker or whatever and then you hear this idea of how they, you know, do sex or recommend sex and then you think that's the way I have to do it like you get to play test it together. So, like, if you decide, okay, yeah, exactly. It's your, it's your own, it's your own space. It's your own relationship. This is, you know, there really aren't that many rules from the Catholic. They're not telling you how to cuddle or when to do what, like, really, like you get to decide this together. And I think to see the freedom and the gift in that, that you get to make this what you two want and what you're comfortable with and your preferences may change and grow as you grow together. Yeah. So thinking for the spouse, that's maybe like, or both of you're like, I want to shower after and then cuddle. Great. Okay. Like, if that's what makes you feel connected or whatever, and the way in which you go about how you wrapped it up, like, that's awesome. But I think just remembering, like, you can change your mind, you can change the way you do things. You can change the way how the evening wraps up. Like there's opportunity, I think talking about it is really important. And even to check in about that, maybe not necessarily. In the moment, but you know that next day or a couple days after like, Hey, how did that go? Did you like that? Like, should we, try something different, just to have that receptivity to each other that like you're in this together. You're figuring it out together. It's not just you think, especially as women, like keeping it inside. of your thoughts in your head and having to manage it. Like you don't have to manage sex. Sex is a joint experience and you work together through it. You know, what you said, what you referred to just now is like a superpower in how to make love, how to make making love work well in your marriage is You talk about it. You do, you check in with each other and give feedback and, and ask and seek input. All of that is so important because I have so many women who just for decades have not talked to Deren or about sex with their husbands. And so it just goes a certain way the whole time, every time. And they're like mortified to bring up a discussion about it. And so with this girl that we're having out to brunch, who's going to get married in a few weeks, theoretically, like our, avatar young lady, like we're going to tell her, please be having conversations with your husband about every part of the process. And don't think of this as off limits or taboo. And there are ways like for my ladies who have the husbands who hop up and shower right after and like maybe they haven't even orgasmed yet and they're like wanting a little more. They're not, they feel like if I were to ask him or to say, I don't like it when you get up and shower or I need more stimulation to get, they feel like this would be such a criticism. It would be a blow to his manhood and they couldn't. You know, bring it up. So I've modeled for them some positive ways just to ask for what you like, say, I'd love to try and see what it's like. If we just cuddle right after, would you be willing to wait on your shower for, you know, 30 minutes or an hour after we cuddle, you can just ask for things like that. You don't have to say, I hate it when you get up and shower, I feel so alone. Right. It doesn't have to be a criticism. It can just be a request or a what if, or would willing to try with me. You can use that for all the aspects of. Foreplay of setting up the love, making a counter initiation and declining, managing the mess, all those things. I don't know. What do you think about that Bridget, about the importance of communicating with each other about how sex is going? I think it's so important and I liked the different topics you were, you were saying because I'm like, okay, we're starting from the end and we're working back. But I like it because I think in some ways it's almost like, you know, I think for this woman, I can imagine she's thinking the end result. What does it feel like afterwards? Like what's happening afterwards? And it's, I think it's kind of fun actually to work backwards, think about it differently because I think it helps you kind of see the. It doesn't kind of, I think it does help you see the places where you have questions or where you're like, Oh, I didn't even think about it in this way. Because I think communication is a huge aspect that I think you have to grow in confidence in talking to your spouse. I think hopefully you have that foundation in your relationship already, where you find that you can communicate and ask different things and you're building that muscle and you have been in your dating and engaged life for sure. But obviously it takes a next, it goes next level when you're starting to navigate that in sex because it's so vulnerable, but hopefully in having some of that foundation, you can really say, okay, we can build from here because I think like. You, you have, you have to challenge yourself. I think if there are certain mindsets you have around it, or if there's a nervousness, or concern or embarrassment or shame to really get at the heart of those with your spouse and be willing to be vulnerable in doing that, because I think like, you know, if you are having sex and something is painful, you need to be able to know it's okay to say, Hey, this, this is kind of hurting, or this is really hurting, or this just doesn't feel very comfortable. Can we try something different? Because obviously, like, your spouse, you know, I'm hoping here really loves and cares about you and they do not want to have sex with someone who is in pain. It's like, that is such a libido killer. So, like, your spouse doesn't want to find out after the fact, like, actually, that was, like, so uncomfortable and painful. Like, imagine for him, what that's, like, saying to him or what you, in some ways, you're putting on him, like, you couldn't tell me that I was hurting you. I think you have to sometimes, flip the script a little bit and see, like, for them, they don't want to be hurting you. Your husband does not want to be hurting you or causing pain. He's trying to love you right now. So that is a good thing to be able to articulate that pain or that discomfort or that something doesn't feel quite right or you want to shift something. Because that's, that is building the foundation of. Communication early on in your sex life that really is important, even though it can feel so uncomfortable or kind of like nerve wracking, do it together. I think that that piece, I think just keeps coming to mind for me is like invest in it together, do it together, communicate together with each other, like say it out loud, just say it out loud. Yes. Oh yeah. And while we're on the topic of pain during intercourse, I just want to make sure that every woman knows. Not to push through pain during intercourse that you can stop at any time, whether it's pain or anxiety, you do not have to push through. I think a lot of Catholic women think, okay, well, we've gotten to this point, you know, and whatever, you know, genitals are out or, or, you know, or in as the case may be. And so now we have to finish up or else it's masturbating or else it doesn't count. If you began with the intention of a full act of lovemaking that includes intercourse. that culminates in the husband's climax inside the vagina. That was your original intention, but somewhere along the way, anxiety or pain became over, you know, crept up and it's better for you to stop and you are not morally required to keep going. I just want to give every woman the freedom to know that and husbands too, for whatever reason, sometimes intercourse is painful for men as well, but we're obviously the much more vulnerable parties here as women. So just know that. And each time you force yourself to have sex. When it's painful, that wires deeper in your brain and association between pain and sex. And then your body, your vaginal wall muscles are going to tense up next time it's time to have sex. Or even when you're thinking about having sex and that's, it's really a delicate thing to tease apart that connection once it's been forged. So stop, stop, stop, please stop all the women out there. Stop forcing yourself to have painful sex. There are solutions. You can get pelvic floor physical therapy. You can get, just, usually there is a solution for whatever's causing the pain. A lot of times it's managing anxiety and getting enough reassurance and enough foreplay and enough connection that you can really relax and open up. But anyway, just had to put that in there because, that's something that, yeah, a lot of women experience. In lovemaking. And God's plan is not for your husband to derive pleasure by giving you pain. That is so not what his plan is. I think we really have to say that much more frequently because I can relate to what you're seeing in Christian and Catholic circles for women that I just have to push through. I just have to finish it or we've come so far this would be an injustice to him or to the marital act or something along those lines. And that's, we just kind of have to pull back. Let's like just use some common sense, you know, in some ways it's like we're getting almost like too heady and trying to like think through the pain when it's like you are in pain. Stop. Stop. It is telling you a message and not listen to your body. Right. Yeah. And you know, so often, like, especially knowing the church is teaching and theology, the body, women are thinking, okay, I have to be a gift of self. I have to be a gift of self. And that means. Giving my husband, my body first in the sexual embrace, but you know, what else is a gift of self sharing? What is happening with you giving the gift of sharing? Like i'm in pain or i'm exhausted right now or i'm feeling used or i'm, you know, feeling neglected Like if you can share what is in your heart and what your personal experience is That is an authentic gift of self because a lot of times it's actually hiding behind a false. Yes When a woman, a wife, just makes herself sexually available for the husband's pleasure or enjoyment, but doesn't communicate what is going on inside her. Also, as you say that, I, again, I'm just thinking from the husband's perspective too, like, this is just something David and I have, talked about, where he's just said, you know, if I found out you were hiding that you didn't want to have sex, you were faking it, like that would feel. He's like beyond her field. Just feel like such a break in our relationship because like, I want to be doing this with you and I want you to enjoy this. I want this to be a joint experience. Like we're doing this together. And he's like, I can't imagine he's like, I'm sure there are some guys that wouldn't care, but for the average, pretty normal husband wants to be doing this. With you and experiencing like there's joy that comes from seeing your spouse enjoying lovemaking and having an orgasm and experiencing the closeness like that's like, I think that's a good shared goal to have. It isn't just fulfilling a duty. And I think like that, I think we have, I don't know, you just, you send it, it's tending towards those extremes of fulfilling a duty or it's all about pleasure. And it's like, well, there's somewhere in the middle. Where they're, you know, like, yes, integration of like, yes, there is like the marital act is beautiful. There are, it's layered and what it means that we're participating in that maybe we don't fully understand living out the Trinitarian love. Okay. But also it's not just solely about pleasure and focusing only on yourself. Like there is that both. That we're living out and giving each other in in gift and participating fully in that gift and I love what you said just you can't hide behind a false. Yes. Right. And I think when we do that, I think there's this sort of idea of sex as a third party thing. And that's really objectifying, right? Like it's not what it should be is to human persons, the husband and wife forming a communion. It's about two people. It's about bringing your whole person together with your husband's whole person. It's not just like providing a service or, you know, or like this third party thing that, that you need to give. I really, husband, he loves you. You're the one he wants. It's not sex that he loves. Because you can't like, that's just an experience. It's you that he loves and you two should be expressing that through sex. And this brings to me to another really important message that I would love to tell our, you know, about to be married girl who are taking out to brunch is that your pleasure matters just as much as his. Your pleasure matters just as much as his. Yes. Morally speaking, his climax have to be inside the wife's vagina. And the way that men's climax works is it, it, that is the procreative aspect as well, you know, through his ejaculation, right? So there is like a lot of moral attention around that and where that has to take place. But we women don't ovulate when we climax. Right. So that really affects, just our understanding of how pleasure fits in for the woman and where. And anyway, I think we might have to have two brunches with this young lady, because we started talking about the end here. And then let's, the next time we take her out, let's talk about foreplay and leading up and initiating declining. But this has been such a wonderful conversation. I've been here talking with Bridget Fusacker of managing your fertility. Bridget has. A wait list for her newlywed intimacy blueprint, which I will share with this episode. You can find her on our website at managing your fertility. com. Her social media handles for Facebook and Instagram are also managing your fertility. Bridget is always so wonderful to talk with you and look forward to doing it again really soon. Thank you so much for having me on. This has been so awesome.