My Delight with Sarah Bartel

Advice for Newlyweds: What Every Catholic Woman Should Know About Sex with Bridget Busacker, Part 2

• Nathan Bartel

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Intimacy Insights for Brides-to-Be and Newlyweds: Expert Advice from Bridget Busacker, part 2 of 2.

In this episode, I continue my interview with my lovely friend Bridget Busacker, founder of Managing Your Fertility. We chat about what we would tell newlywed or engaged women about sex and marriage. Join us as we imagine taking a bride-to-be out for coffee and consider what we would tell her about intimacy in marriage.  We share stories and practical tips to help build a joyful and connected intimate life. 


LINKS:

Free Enhancing Marital Intimacy Guide for Catholic Women: 9 Skills for Body, Mind, and Spirit (for married and engaged women)


I am delighted to have Bridget Boosacker on again to be talking about what advice we would give a engaged woman who's about to get married about sex. Bridget is the creator of managingyourfertility. com And she has a newlywed intimacy blueprint, waitlist signup, which I will link to this episode because she's putting together a course just to help engaged and newlywed Catholic women to learn about how sex works. And we had a part one to this conversation where interestingly, we began by talking about. What we would, what advice we would give this young woman who's about to get married that, you know, we're imagining about how, like the cleanup and the end part of sex. But now Bridget, let's say we've taken her out to brunch again, and now we're going to talk about the lead up and the foreplay and really get into the nitty gritty. So I would love to hear, I love the story you shared in part one of the conversation about your aunt who took you aside, took you out shopping one time and just shared a few. Practical tips about, you know, have a towel and pee afterwards. There's going to be a mess. But what things should we tell this young woman about, yeah, beginning to make love? Okay. Something that comes to the top of my mind is that question that I think, I think more women have than not is, will it fit? Is it going to work? Yeah. You know, I think it sounds like I say it and I'm like, it sounds kind of silly, but no question is silly. Right. I asked my doctor that when I was engaged, I literally, to my primary care provider, I was like, how is this going to work? Because I'm a little intimidated. Oh, I legit didn't think it would like, I'm not even going to lie to you. I was like, it's not, this isn't going to work. I don't know how this is going to work. And that's before you've born children and realize that your vagina dilates 10 centimeters to let a baby's head out. Cause what my doctor told me is. It's all a muscle, your whole vaginal wall. It is a muscle that stretches and it's going to fit. Don't worry, but it's only going to fit if you guys relax. And do enough foreplay so that you're really feeling good and yeah, you got to have some lubrication, whether it's your own natural lubrication or you use some lube. I know Bridget, you've created a whole guide to lube, right? Yes. Yeah. I, this was, I guess so many questions about lubricant. Like is it okay to use? Is it sinful to use? Is it morally? Licit to use. And that was, I'm pretty sure that was another thing that my aunt had told me was like, use lube. You have to use it. Do not let yourself be in pain. Stop. If there's pain, like she was just so good with the details. Yeah. And I, that, that was something that, is very, another aspect that's not really talked about, even though you can go down, like in, in your target or Walmart and there's a whole aisle dedicated to birth control and lubricant and you're like this is exactly but apparently it's good to do. And I think that would be something that needs to be emphasized is like the foreplay aspect when you said that too. I'm just like man foreplay is good. We've got to talk about We've got to talk about this. Let your body relax. I feel like we need better words in our language too, because I would say for the majority of couples who figured out how to have sex in a mutually pleasurable way, foreplay is most of it. The word implies that it's just this preamble, but really it's often like the bulk of your experience together when you look at the number of minutes spent in your sex session. So, yeah, it's so, so, so important because here's the thing, here's what I want to tell this young woman, that our theoretical young woman that we're taking out to brunch, that a woman's arousal curve is a lot slower and a lot longer. Then a husband than a man's arousal curve. God designed you that way. It doesn't mean you're broken. If you don't get aroused and get to climax in five to 10 minutes, like many men can, you're not designed to do that. You're working well as you're intended when it takes lots of warmup and lots of, caressing and touching to get you aroused. So yeah, I think that would be really important for her to know. And that, There's also like before play as well. You know, you don't just hop in bed and then say, okay, we're going to have sex. All right. Close off. Let's do it. There's this prelude of feeling, first of all, your emotional connection is key. You have to have this heart to heart connection with each other. And, maybe start off with a date night where you're talking with each other or watching a movie that you both like and are laughing or relax, just doing something relaxing or fun or connecting or all three together. Is really important. So that you feel lovey and close, because this is like the incarnation of your relationship when you come together physically. So you have to have the emotional intimacy in place. So you don't feel used or like a thing or, but then to relax first. If you've had a busy day with your work or demands, you've got to have a transition time to unwind and let your nervous system calm down because our libido lives in our parasympathetic nervous system, which is when we're in rest and digest. So when we're playful, open, curious, creative it, when we're getting all the things done, hypervigilant, chronic stress. Like focus on other things in a, you know, that intensity, that's when we're in our sympathetic nervous system, that's fight or flight and chronic stress and like daily life in contemporary times really counts for that. That is not when your libido is going to feel free to come out and play. So have that transition time, the before play, this could be, you go on a walk by yourself. This could be you hide in the closet and read a book. This could be, you take a bath or just maybe you would do it with your husband and just Get in the bed and then cuddle in the sheets and just chit chat with each other until the day has melted off. Here's a pro tip I didn't learn until a couple of decades into marriage is the before play technique known as mini coma. We, I named this myself where you've had a day, a lot of day, and I'll lay in my husband's arms. I'll be like, I really love you. And I'm totally into this. I'm just having a mini coma right now because I'm so, keyed up or exhausted from the day. And so you just lay there inert for a while until you finally feel like relaxed and warming up. So I don't know. What are your thoughts on the before play or the transition time? I just love learning from you because I think that I do, I just, the mini coma thing is so real. Like you just like, Ooh, let it, let it all melt away. I love that visual too. I think of having that of just like letting the day, letting the stressors, letting things just maybe you're talking about it. I'm an external processor. So it helps me to say it out loud and then just like relaxing and melt away because then you're like, okay, I'm chill. But I think I liked what you're saying about the before play, because there is something too about like that emotional connection that you're building throughout the day. And I think that's something you have to be willing to learn. In when you're first married and like you're not going to get it perfectly or there isn't one way to do it because I think like for me I remember thinking like if someone could just give me the playbook that would be really helpful because I was just so like unsure and nervous and I think there's just a level of recognizing you do have to trust this process and know like you are married it will get better and the fact that you're even thinking about this and wanting to put in the effort and and wanting to have a great sex life like you're already on a great start. Like you're, this is going to be great because I think like that attention and that desire is there. Like it, it is going to come with that time and that ability to just want to learn each other. And so I think that openness is really important to the process of creating great sex because there are different reasons, you know. Like you can kind of create your own playbook once you learn through trial and error what works well for you as a couple and what doesn't, then you start adding to your repertoire of options for your playbook and you like create this between you two. Yeah, the mini coma Bridget, that I have to give credit where credit is due. Nathan and I watched the 2010 movie Date Night starring Tina Fey and Steve Carrell. So Steve Carroll character you know, it's time for their weekly date night to go out to dinner in the city. And he's like, Oh, date night. Yay. Date night. And he's had a big day of work. It's like, okay, I'm just gonna lay here in the easy chair, have a little mini coma for five minutes. All right. And now I'm ready to go out for dinner. I haven't seen that movie in so long. That's great. You know, made us laugh. I have engaged women in my, my delight course who. Are really, they want to be very careful about talking about sex with their fiancees before they're married because they're worried that they're going to tempt each other to lustful thoughts and whatnot. And I just want to tell them, no, you should really definitely 100 percent talk with each other. Don't worry. If we're going to air one way or another, let's not air on the side of scrupulosity on this one. Yeah. Like really communicating, knowing that you're not even going to know necessarily all the things you need to be talking about, but just get the conversation going. And you might have, you might eat, share what your, what your expectations are about sex based on your formation right now. This does not mean these are correct expectations. This is just like what you've. You know, all of us receive some sort of sexual formation. Usually it's the combination of the culture, our friends, our family of origin experiences you know, whatever intentional formation we've done with our reading and spiritual growth. It's some combination of those things. And that has formed your internal expectation of what sex should look like. There's some big distortions that we need, you know, that's our goal, right? You and I, Bridget, is to help clarify what's really accurate, right? Like the sex shouldn't take five or ten minutes. That's, that's not right. Not like in the movies. I like what you're saying about having couples. Talk about it and not erring on the side of scrupulosity. And I think too, if you're a couple that maybe you've already struggled a lot with making out and struggling with not like you're not having sex, but you're, you actually are like engaging in foreplay and maybe you don't even realize it, you know, that point that I think If that is a struggle for you and your dating or your engaged life, find a space maybe where, when, where you can talk, where if you do get turned on talking about it or you're super into each other, like maybe you're on a walk, so you can't just start a heavy make out session, you know, or. So, like, whatever, like, coffee shop where it's public, so you can't really be groping each other. Yeah, right. And, but I think, like, you're, you're right on that. We need to be talking about it now, like, start, start those expectations that you might or might not have, or you're, even like your fears, like, okay, I'm a little nervous about it or like, I'm not sure, like, how it's all going to work or, you know, because you don't know what might come up and it's, you're not actually, you know, if you're not, you're wanting to be sensitive and I get that. But you're not, and you're not married yet, so you're wanting to be sensitive to that because I think they're, you know, it's like, well, what if we ended up somehow breaking up or our engagement ends and we're not married to each other? It's like, okay, but you're just talking about expectations and like what you're thinking about. You're not engaging in sex. Like, it is okay. Like, you will learn a lot more together when you are married, when you are naked with each other. Like, there really is no harm. And I think it's, you know, I've actually had a couple women in my courses recently who had super, super strong boundaries around contact with their boyfriend slash fiance, to the point that now that they are married, It's not working as far as them making love because there's so much anxiety, they couldn't flip the switch and they're just really like, they can't even let their husbands touch them. In the ways that you're going to need to for foreplay. So I really, gosh, it's just, it's a fine, you know, there is a balance for sure, but I just want to reassure women that like just getting turned on by talking about sex. That's not a sin. That's a side effect of an important conversation. And all of us can get turned on, throughout the course of our lives in different ways. And that's not a moral thing. One way or another, what's moral is what we do about it. And you're going to keep those good boundaries up, but just please don't be afraid. I think that's it. I just don't want, let's get the John Paul two quote, be not afraid. Don't be afraid to have honest discussions. With your husband to be about lovemaking. And then, you know what? You might not even have sex on your wedding night. In fact, I think it'd be a good idea to wait. Cause that's a big day. Your wedding day is a big day and you've just put out a lot of energy being on for all the many people that have attended, you know, at the reception, you're being gracious and greeting people. And there's just so much focus on I just feel like it's a huge tax on your nervous system. Like just getting through a wedding day and that is not the optimum conditions for relaxing into lovemaking and getting in touch with your body and your heart and your, you know, and then getting sexy with your husband. Like, why don't you rest for a little bit and wait a couple of days? You know, that's an option for me and my husband, we were planning to practice natural family planning to avoid. And we knew that wedding day plus a few were going to be days that we were going to avoid. And I don't even, I didn't realize at the time what a blessing that was, but it actually did give us the space that we needed to discover each other in a more relaxed setting later. I'm really glad you're bringing this up because that was something that popped into my head was, I think, that debate around, like, do I have to have sex on my wedding night to technically consummate the marriage and to make sure that this is all, like, you know, eyes are dotted, everything's taken care of, signs sealed, delivered, I'm yours, you know, like, I think there gets to be a really huge fixation on this. It'd be legalistic, right? Like you will consummate, but there's no time limit on it. Unless you guys are worried that you're going to be seeking an annulment, and that we've got to get this canon law requirement taken care of right away. Like who's checking? You could consummate a couple days, weeks, even a month or two after the wedding, and you're going to be fine. I think I want to tease out this more because as a moral theologian I want, like, having your moral theologian hat on and talking about this, like, this is the thing that I see people. Tending to freak out about like, no, I have to have it in order to make sure the marriage is valid. Well, do you want, are you asking me to nerd out? Because I totally, I am. I actually am because I really am thinking about this girl at brunch. If she's all on board, really wants to do the right thing. Maybe, you know, with some scrupulosity kind of makes sense to her, you know? And she's just like, I don't know. Yeah. Nerd out for us for just a couple. Welcome to my mini Ted talk, pull up your seat because the, what happened with our understanding of the theology of marriage is two different traditions were combined over the centuries, way back in church history. So we had the Roman tradition that said it was the exchange of consent that formed the bond. Between husband and wife. That was the legally binding bond, right? That meant, okay, they are really married, right? So this is in the early centuries of the church. Meanwhile, north of the Alps, you have a Germanic tradition that forms in that, that like gets established subsumed somehow into the church, where the bond is forged when husband, husband and wife make love for the first time. When it's consummated, then it's a real thing. So there were debates in among church fathers over the years. And we're talking like maybe somewhere, I'm thinking if I recall correctly from my grad school days, somewhere between like 600 and 800 AD, or maybe a bit later, right? It's like, well, which one's the right one? Okay. Here's what our church decided. Let's do both. Let's combine them both. It's the exchange of consent and the consummation that make for a legally binding marriage. Now, like I said before, This isn't even an issue for you guys unless you're thinking of undoing that bond, and that's a real serious concern for you right now because, yeah, if you've never had sex, then now, you know, you can say, Okay, well, we didn't consummate the marriage so we're not legally married so easy peasy to get an annulment, like that's so easy to. To apply for and get an annulment for that case. Most annulments we're looking at, you know, most in most cases, a couple has definitely had sex. And so then we have to look at there was something imperfect in their consent. And that's what we base the annulment on, but you guys are going to stay married, right? Like you're going to have sex at some point and you're going to stay married. You're not seeking annulment or divorce. It's not really even an issue for you. You just will have sex at some point. And then it's, you know, then you wouldn't be able to point to that as grounds for an annulment, but it's really real life speaking practically, it's not an issue for most couples, like if you're a king and queen and you're forming an alliance between your countries and your parents promised you, you know, The bride to the groom to form alliances. And but they were married when they were 13 and 15 and they never had sex. Like then we're going to be really interested in like, well, did they have sex? Well, when, then like these questions are really important. Right. But even then usually I could get an enrollment. Uh, anyway, I just wanted to relax. I want this goal to relax and just be like, no, you do not have to do the deed on your wedding day. You are married. You're going to have sex at some point. You can just relax and do it in a way that honors your personhood and his, because the real emphasis on the theology of sexuality and marriage is on like personalism. That is what really came out since Vatican two, John Paul, two's writings, just all the writings of the church since. Vatican two onwards really looks at the whole person, the gift of self, all of that. So let's honor the person and not put so much pressure on her. Right. I love that you would describe this to get, to, to get into the weeds of it because I think. When I've seen, and some of this is online too. So if you're, you're not online or you're not following certain individuals who, who tend to get, you know, a post gets generated because I think it creates these debates on these topics and then it creates, I think, a confusion in a sense of like, am I, am I doing like, what does the church cheat? Like, I don't know. Oh my gosh. Like, when am I supposed to have sex? And I think that sense of. It's almost like a lacking of self possession and recognizing like, let's again, take a step back and like, let's, let's think for a moment. Like what makes sense here? What is the church actually teaching? You do not have to have sex on your wedding day or maybe simply need to hear like that you have permission to decide that as a couple when you will do it. And there's no, there's no rush. There's no need to do it to consummate for you to be like completely and perfectly valid marriage. That's not, it's a non issue. You've made that very clear, which I think is so important. So now for this girl, who's sitting at brunch, she can say, okay, like, Great. I like, we get to decide this together and like, maybe at the end of the day, they Irish goodbye. They, they're back at their hotel or their apartment or their home or wherever. And it's like, I totally want to have sex. It's going to be so cool. Let's just see what happens. Okay. Like hopefully it all works and feels good. Maybe it won't. Maybe it's a little awkward. Maybe it does hurt a little bit. Like we're going to figure it out, you know? So I think like, give yourself the permission to do it that night or not. Or not. It will be okay. Like, and I think sometimes, I think that's, just speaking really honestly, I think I needed to know that because I think, I was like, okay, I think we're, we're supposed to have sex. Like it worked out. We were also using NFP planning to avoid, you know, and, and thinking like, okay, open to life, it happens, but we're avoiding right now for X, Y, Z reasons. And I, and it's, and it aligned with my cycle that like, we could have sex on our wedding night. And I think I put a lot of pressure on myself. Like, well, you're supposed to do this. Yeah. No one has told us. No time requirement. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think if we had known that, I think like, I don't know what I would have opted for. I can't go back, but I, I know, I think it would have helped me relax a lot more and just knowing like, Oh, okay, pressure's off. We can enjoy our wedding. We can stay as little as long as we want at the reception. We can come back and decide what we want to do and like, how are we feeling? And that's what I think. I really want this. Girl to know like chatting with us asking questions. It's like take the pressure off of yourself. Talk about this too. Talk about this before you're Expectation like oh my gosh, we're gonna have sex. It's gonna be so cool. And you're like, I'm really tired out Maybe even touched out. I don't know. I want to do it the next morning I want to try the next evening after we have a romantic dinner and we hang out in lingerie all day together and like it's We just chill like I don't know Yeah. Or maybe in a few days or a week or so, but definitely be talking about that because yeah, then this girl is putting internal pressure on herself or, you know, thinking, okay, he's expecting it. I got to perform for him. Like the wedding already is so performative, right? Like we want to look pretty in the pictures. We want to be. Gracious and kind to all the in laws and family members who come. Like you are just putting out all this energy for others. And then you're like, okay, now I have to do this for my new husband. Cause he's really, really expecting it in order to make love and for it to go. Well, you have to be able to withdraw into yourself in a certain sense. And connect with yourself first and relax before you can then invite someone in so close like that. And yeah, I don't know, for me as an introvert and for other people who are introverts or highly sensitive people where, sensory stimuli really is taxing. Just definitely do yourself a favor and set up conditions favorably so that it can be more relaxing and connecting. And then let's give her some tips for the first time, because there might be a bit of discomfort for the first time. Oh, wait, I want to backtrack, back it up, back it up. The conversations she should be having with her husband to be, they should also include like, what's the porn use situation for both or either of us. And if the husband is current to be, is currently using porn, he has got to do something, not just white knuckle it, but get into a program, get some sort of support and accountability to get off of porn, to get sober from it, to stop masturbating as like the best gift that he can do, you know, to, yeah. To be able to come together naturally in actual real life sex with his bride to be. And then there might be some consequences that will follow you from the porn use. He might have unrealistic expectations about what sex should look like based on how the porn formed him. wife to be also, if she had porn use or porn addiction goes both ways. But that doesn't mean it's not overcomable and that you can also, forge your new language of love together. So anyway, just wanted to put that out there because it is such a pandemic right now of porn. And it's. It's so destructive, but yeah, basically get the porn out and work on actively healing from it. And then, yeah, I guess there's a whole new, I think that's like a whole episode because I masturbation too. It's like some people are struggling with masturbation, not necessarily through porn use. Right. And that can also be really challenging for men. And women and just like navigating that and, and like the support and accountability you need and the rewiring of your brain that you need to do for recognizing and forming your body's responses now in a different way, because then you've kind of gotten used to the body's responses from the masturbation and then you're going to have to redo it. Having sex in real life is so different. From masturbating mentally, physically, it's just a whole different thing, but that is a different episode, maybe a different series actually, but the more you can be open in your conversations with each other and accountable and say like, Oh yeah, I do, you know, and don't hide the things and don't shame each other. This is just out there. It's so common. And the great thing too, is there are resources and there are support is available so that you can. Overcome this. Like you said it, this isn't just kind of like, Oh yeah, you'll get through it. It's like, no, there are real, real tangible resources and people who are working to help you. Move through this. Yeah, and overcome a few there's strive 21, which is pretty low cost to help the porn user, man, get, I know there's other programs like Magdala ministries I think for women you could get help from a certified sexual addiction therapist, which is the gold standard for therapists to help you as a user get free from a porn addiction. But also the wife of a porn user can get so much help from consulting with the CSAT because of the betrayal trauma that often accompanies it. There's programs like Bloom for Women, Bloom for Catholic Women, and Hope's Garden that all help wives of porn using husbands. Anyway, yeah, tons of good resources. Yeah. Thank you for mentioning that. Okay. So first time tips for the first time, whenever it is, they decide they're going to make love the first time, maybe a warm bath first to help her body relax. Some people talk about a glass of wine. I don't know. I, and our friend Ellen from Ellen Holloway of Charting Towards intimacy, she has taken a strong anti glass of wine stance because she rightfully, she doesn't want people, women to become dependent on that wine to relax. There are other ways that you can relax. Okay. It's so interesting. You bring that up because I remember someone saying like, you're going to be fine. Just relax. Drink some wine together. Basically like loosen up with alcohol. And I remember that kind of bugged me. Did it? Yeah, and I think now, because we've worked on our sex life together, it's more just like a hey or a fun drink and like it's part of the process of like, it's part of the date night unwinding together. Yeah. It's part of the date night or the emotional connection. It's not like a, I need this for my body to relax or for me to kind of melt away the day. Yeah. Because I think,, I don't know that I have a strong anti wine response, but I remember when I heard that before the first time, I don't necessarily want alcohol to be the thing. That I'm looking for when I'm really just trying to figure out like, like maybe if we're drinking together and it's like a fun connection point, if it's that emotional connection that's happening, and that's something we enjoy doing together. Great. But like, I. I can understand if someone hears it and it's like, Ooh, okay. And there are people struggling with alcohol addiction. I don't even like wine. I keep trying to like wine, you know, when people talk like it's wine o'clock or whatever, mama needs wine or whatever. I wish wine did for me what it does for other people. It just makes me feel gross and really like. Sugar and chocolate is what does that for me. But anyway, I think it just represents the vibe that we're after here, which is mellow and relaxed. And hey, you could light a candle, play some lovely music and have a full body massage with almond oil. And that can really help you relax. But you basically, you just want to get really relaxed and comfortable. You could do breathing exercises. You could do a relaxation meditation. You could laugh together. Laughing helps you relax, but you're going to want a lot of relaxing and a lot of touching. I think again, too, like this is where you get to play test. This is where you get to see what you like or what you don't like. And if you try something and you're like, Oh, I did not like full body massage. Okay. Like, that's okay. Like, there's no right or wrong here. Like you get to, you get to like figure that out together and try different options to see like what. helps you enter into that space of just like rest and play and for your nervous system to Yeah, just relax. I think like that's that's the thing I wish someone had told me and I would tell French girl is like how I think about how you relax or what you enjoy doing to relax or like in ways when you've been on date nights together you know, what ways have you found like really close to each other or you like felt really connected, like maybe recreate those moments. And now that you're married, you're going to be able to continue that and, and move that into foreplay and having sex together. Yeah. I think, yeah, just like thinking about like your relationship specifically, like What have you guys done that is really relaxing, really fun, you feel really close together? Like, try it, do those things, do those things that you love and incorporate that into the before play. Well, at this point, I think most other patrons at our brunch restaurant have cleared out and it's just us three, you, me, and our brunch girl, and she is, feeling empowered and looking, you know, has ideas to what to discuss with her soon to be husband, and we are gonna Ask for the bill and head home. So I hope this conversation has been helpful for many of you. Thank you so much, Bridget, for talking about these things with me. And again, I'm going to direct everyone to Bridget's new newlywed blueprint. Can you talk about that? Bridget? Yeah, I can really quickly. So my newlywed blueprint, excuse me, newlywed intimacy blueprint course. I'm designing it to help engaged and newlywed women, Catholic women specifically, to help them feel prepared, empowered, and just like feeling like they have the tools and the practical skills they need to build a good foundation for great sex with their spouses and to be able to feel confident. In having conversations in being able to build the sex life that they want with their spouse and not feeling like they have to tiptoe around or try to find sources on social media or randomly through the internet and trying to piece things together. So I'm really trying to put it all together for Catholic women to be able to go through that and feel a lot more comfortable and confident and excited about having sex. Yay. This is such a great service to women, couples, and the church. Thank you so much, Bridget, for putting your wonderful talents to the service of the church in this way. You can all find catch up with Bridget at her managing your fertility. com website and find her on social media at managing your fertility. This has been a wonderful conversation, Bridget. Thanks so much. God bless. Thank you so much, Sarah. It was fun having brunch with you and our brunch girl. Cheers. We'll, we'll clink our mimosas and get our purses and go now. God bless. Bye.