My Delight with Sarah Bartel

3 Keys to Emotional Intimacy from Sts. Louis and Zelie Martin

• Nathan Bartel

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In this episode, I’m joined by my husband Nathan as we share three keys to building emotional intimacy in marriage, inspired by Saints Louis and Zélie Martin.

You will hear about how this saintly couple put faith at the center of their relationship, and how they stayed connected and united to each other while honoring each other’s differences. 

We also share practical examples from our own marriage and offer a lot of encouragement along the way! 

If you want to join my husband and I for a deeper look at the spirituality of Sts. Louis and Zelie Martin, along with the "Little Way" of their daughter, Saint Therese of Lisieux, register for our free Little Way of Marriage workshop!

👉 Little Way of Marriage Workshop:
www.littlewayofmarriage.com

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MORE RESOURCES

Free Enhancing Marital Intimacy Guide for Catholic Women: 9 Skills for Body, Mind, and Spirit (for married and engaged women)

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Sarah:

Welcome to this episode of My Delight. I have a very special guest on with me this time, my own husband, Nathan Bartel. Thank you, Nathan, for joining me.

Nathan:

Well, it's a pleasure to be here and crash your podcast.

Sarah:

Oh, it's. Really a joy to be able to do this with you. This podcast is going to feature three tips for building emotional intimacy from Saints Louis and Zalie Maran, who are the saint parents, the saint mom and dad of St. Theres Maran. So this is gonna give you three great ideas for how you can develop the emotional intimacy in your own marriage. I'm your host, Sarah Bartel. I'm a Catholic sex and marriage coach, and with my husband Nathan. We have created the cana feast.com suite of programs, including The Little Way of Marriage Workshop, which is a free four-part workshop online that is all inspired by St. Therese, St. Louis, and Zelly. thank you Nathan, for doing all these adventures together with me.

Nathan:

You bet.

Aw.

Sarah:

Okay, First of all, I wanna give a little background about Saints Louis and Zelly Maran. For those who don't know, they lived in the late 18 hundreds in France, in Normandy, actually in a little town. they lived in ol and then after Zalie died, Louis moved the family to Liz. they were both of them thinking of becoming religious before they married, but it didn't work out for either of them. They both made attempts and were rejected from entering the religious communities that they tried to enter. Decided to found their way to marriage and had a really beautiful, happy marriage and a beautiful home full of girls. a few boys who died early in infancy. they really liked each other. Which is great. Right?

Nathan:

Yeah. And they had a really happy, joyful marriage. you know, there are married saints, Louis and Zelley aren't the only ones, but sometimes it's, a wife who is a saint almost because her husband was a jerk and she was wholly despite it all. But, you know, Louie and Zelley really show us the holiness of happy, joyful marriage.

Sarah:

Mm-hmm. And they had a hard life. Like there were so many challenges. Stresses, anxieties. Hardships. They had to bury four of their children. all their parents, you know, the one generation up all died. They had, there were, there was a war with Prussia and they had to garrison soldiers in their home like. A lawsuit with neighbors. There were a lot of difficulties, but the point is they liked each other. They liked their marriage, they faced those

Nathan:

difficulties together.

Sarah:

Exactly.

Nathan:

were really united and connected, and had just a really profound love and respect and joy in each other. Sarah, I'm going to do a little bit of a takeover of your podcast and interview you on what these three tips. That we can learn from Saints Louis and Zellie Maran for increasing emotional, intimacy and connection in marriage. So we've got three tips. What's your first one?

Sarah:

So the first key, was they had a common. Shared top priority. And that was to put God first together at the center of their life, in the center of their marriage. So they had a motto actually for their marriage, which was, God is served first. And they enacted this, in their daily life. First of all, by how they structured their day. They got up in time to go to the. 5:00 AM daily mass together.

Nathan:

That is some serious service and sacrifice right there.

Sarah:

So they literally put God first in the order of their day by going to mass when it was still dark for probably almost all of the year. That was the workers' mass. The humble common folk went to that, and they did too. They really decided together about their goals for their family life, which were to raise children for heaven. Louis made a big sacrifice by when he had a clock making jewelry. Yeah, he was a clock maker and. He shut his shop on Sundays to honor God and keep holy the Sabbath. And he could have had a lot of business had he kept it open because, the folk in his village, in their town would stroll around on Sundays and they could have strolled into his shop. But he protected that time for God. And family. What they did on Sundays is they went on big, walks out in the countryside and enjoyed authentic leisure together, like with Zelle and their kids. So that was really a gift. St. Therese wrote about her memories of those times, gathering wild flowers out in the fields on their Sunday afternoon walks. She wouldn't have had that. Had her dad been working and, you know, made like work and earning money, his top priority. So how do you think Yeah,

Nathan:

absolutely. So, it sounds like putting God first you also interwoven their family.

Mm-hmm.

Nathan:

we put God first, that also naturally bubbles up the priority of our own vocation, which is marriage. Mm-hmm. And raising children that our marriage is blessed with.

Sarah:

Exactly. Yeah. You're not serving false gods. I guess if you put God in top place where he belongs and it really adds to human flourishing. Right. And yeah, when we don't,

Nathan:

So we have inside the little way of marriage workshop, which is I have done with you. Yes. That features both of us. If you sign up for that in the very first session. What we teach is a great way to pray together, and this is something that Sarah and I have done. you and I do this every day. Sometimes not always first thing, sometimes we have to find each other a little later in the morning. But, we make it an absolute priority to pray. Together every day. We pray for each other and we pray that God will bless the other, at the beginning of the day for whatever that day may hold.

Sarah:

Now maybe you're listening and you're thinking, well, my husband absolutely is not going to like the idea of praying together with me out loud. We have got you. Don't worry. We have adaptations we teach inside the workshop.

Mm-hmm.

Sarah:

For how you can make this work even with a reluctant spouse. you can do some covert, sneaky prayer where he doesn't even know you're praying for him. And with him, you could also just ask him. Do you mind if I pray for us? And, you know, he might be okay with that if he doesn't have to say anything, um, you could just be next to him anyway. We, we go into more detail. We go into

Nathan:

some detail and we've worked with, with couples, with, with, well, with one half of couples with wives

mm-hmm.

Nathan:

To help them. Create a habit of praying with their husbands who aren't necessarily that interested. And it works. It works. There are many success stories of couples who are now happily praying together, husband also because of, the way to make it joyful and positive and honestly simple and easy as well.

Sarah:

Yeah. And even if the husband. Never ends up praying out loud. You're still drawing on grace for your marriage if you do your end of it in the ways that we teach you. That's right. Now Nathan is our tech guy, just like, um, Louis Marta really was great with working with his hands and, um, you know, the, the mechanical aspects of. Watchmaking and jewelry making and clock making. Nathan is the magic at the keyboard and

Nathan:

on

Sarah:

all of our platforms, so I will leave it to you. Nathan. Can you tell everyone listening where to find the little way of Marriage workshop?

Nathan:

Ah, the little way of marriage workshop can be found simply at little way of marriage.com. It has its own little website and registration page, so little way of marriage.com. No spaces, no dashes, just little way of marriage.com.

Sarah:

I'm so thankful that you know your way around tech and the internet. I would honestly be so lost if it weren't you. you bought that domain name, you got it all set up. Thank you. Thank you. He is truly the win beneath my wings and all the ways that you hear my content or see stuff that we or I do. It's really Nathan that is making that all possible. So I'm glad you all get to hear him now.

Nathan:

Well, I'm happy to help.

Sarah:

Aw, so gracious. Okay. All right.

Nathan:

Do we have a second tip?

Sarah:

So the second tip is rituals of connection.

Nathan:

I love rituals of connection. Yes. These are great. Yes. Tell us what a ritual of connection is.

Sarah:

A ritual of a connection is something that you do together on the regular and it repeats

Nathan:

so you don't have to think about it. It's like a habit. You just do it. It's scheduled, it's regular, and it just happens.

Sarah:

It's, yeah, it becomes a habit. So it's something you do daily or weekly or monthly or annually. Those are all some good levels of rituals of connection. I guess you could add quarterly in there. Our

Nathan:

daily prayer is one of our daily rituals of connection.

Sarah:

Right. Absolutely.

Nathan:

Yeah. But there are other rituals of connection like date nights.

Sarah:

Oh yes. Which is actually today is our date. Night day. Yeah. As we're recording this.

Nathan:

Alright. We a date night tonight. A Wednesday.

Sarah:

Yes. Yeah. So Louie and Zellie also had rituals of connection. You already heard about how they got up and went to gather to the 5:00 AM daily mass. That was something they did together. So that was connecting for them. But they also, in their leisure, they did things. Together, like, Louis would read aloud from French literature or poetry. they just liked spending time together. They both worked. after Louis shut his shop, he worked with his wife on their business. So there was already some connecting. Kinda like we do. Maybe he

Nathan:

was her tech support.

Sarah:

I think he was, in many ways he did marketing and sales and product delivery. And anyway, yeah, so they're already working together on their business, but they also like, their daughters. Talked about in their, canonization documents. They said anything that they did in their leisure, it was actually focused on their faith and growing in faith. and they did it together. So they did devotions together. we know that they went to church in May for the maid devotions. just, yeah. Again, this is more religious activities.

Nathan:

What's you said earlier, they often spend. Sundays in true leisure with their family as well. Yes. So that's also a ritual of connection that can involve the kids.

Sarah:

Yeah. Take a walk. A walk

Nathan:

on a Sunday walk or go to the park as a family. Mm-hmm. all these types of things. especially if they're regular and if they happen every, you know, every week or so.

Sarah:

Exactly. Yeah. So you too, listening to this, all of you, you can look for what are some rituals of connection. That I, and we can build into our marriage.

Nathan:

Yeah. And look for things that you already enjoy doing. You know, what do you enjoy? What does your husband enjoy? and how can you make that a regular thing? If you both enjoy it, you're more likely to actually make time for it and make it happen regularly. And if you can do activities that you enjoy together regularly, that just increases your connection, your love, your joy, your opportunity for happy. time together

Sarah:

and we actually have a whole section on rituals of connection to flesh this out more inside our little way of marriage workshop

Nathan:

session two.

Sarah:

we definitely recommend that you look for at least 15 or 20 minutes a day that you can connect and talk with each other about more than just logistics.

Nathan:

Yeah, it's important to get past the calendar or the budget. Those are important topics but it's really important to talk to each other in a way. Like you can ask how each other's day is, but go beyond fine. like really talk about it.

Sarah:

What is your strongest emotion today? That's usually the answer to that is usually a story. Mm-hmm. And then you get to discover more about what is in your spouse's heart.

Nathan:

Ask follow up questions.

Sarah:

Yeah, open-ended questions are really great. Mm-hmm. For definitely this type of, definitely,

Nathan:

yeah. Emotional connection. So daily, daily conversation.

Sarah:

Okay. So 15, to 15 minutes a day

Nathan:

Coffee is great.

Sarah:

One date night a week. Broadly speaking, this is just like a placeholder in your week. It doesn't have to be a night, it can be a weekend morning or afternoon. It can be a coffee together. Certain weekday. In the morning where you get up early and just. Have some time, but this is just a longer, like one hour or so at minimum, at least stretch of time that you are carving out for each other, not trying to get other things done

Nathan:

And it doesn't have to be a big out. You know, to a restaurant type of thing. We have a weekly date night on Wednesdays, and most of those date nights are in. Mm-hmm. Like, we stay home, we make bedtime faster, we get the kids to bed, and then we in, ideally we carve out that time so that we have. Time and space for each other. And we'll make drinks at home and sometimes we'll dance and sometimes we'll read and we'll do different things at home.

Sarah:

Massages, a walk. We could take a walk in our neighborhood. Drinks, I just

Nathan:

mocktails.

Sarah:

I've been really into seltzer mocktails lately. That's great. I'm on a health kick with apple, apple cider vinegar, rosemary seltzer, water and ice. It's really yummy. okay, so rituals of connection, that is the second tip from Saints, Louis, and Deli and their happy marriage. That's right. And

Nathan:

for extra credit, you could schedule in like an annual overnight getaway,

Sarah:

right? So annually it's actually

Nathan:

really helpful to do an annual thing on your anniversary, someone's birthday. Or just, you know, a convenient weekend in the summer or whatever. but it's really, really good to have an even longer stretch of time annually. And then you take that time to look back over the year, where have we come? What challenges have we overcome? What dreams have been fulfilled in our life? Through the grace of God, what are our dreams for the future? What are our dreams for our kids and what are we gonna do in the next year to help them, accomplish those.

Sarah:

Yeah, it's so good to get that bigger picture perspective. Mm-hmm. When you get away together for a weekend or a week. We actually have friends from our parish who are taking their annual anniversary trip and they carved out the week, they got, you know, arranged childcare. One of their older, teens is watching their younger kids and, they didn't actually have their plans for what they were gonna do during the week

Nathan:

until the night before they left.

Sarah:

Yes,

Nathan:

it was fantastic. But that time was important to them and that was the most important thing was carving out the time. I love that. And then, and then they're gonna have a spontaneous adventure together,

Sarah:

so Great.

Nathan:

Alright, so tip number two was rituals of connection. Do we have a third tip?

Sarah:

Of course, we have a third tip. What's tip number

Nathan:

three?

Sarah:

That is respect and honor your differences and your different preferences. Saints, Louis and Zellie had such different personalities. They had different preferences for the style of spiritual. devotions and activities that they each liked. Zellie was very busy and active. If I were to guess, I would say she had more of a CIC temperament

Nathan:

for sure.

Sarah:

And her style of devotions, she was really active with works of charity. In fact, she noticed a girl in their town a, was being bullied and like, manipulated by these two fake nuns. And she took those fake, fake nuns. Yes, they dressed in habits, but they were not actual real nuns. And they somehow like had this girl in their control and she took them to court and got that girl free. she was a real go-getter and had this boldness and courage. she tended to be a little anxious. She was very driven, but a bit. Anxious about providing for her family and just really worked nonstop. Louis had to write her letters when he was away on business trip, saying, now, now, now let's trust in God and you know, he's gonna provide for us. Don't worry, don't work yourself to the bone. because she really was so driven, Louis was more. melancholic. just from reading about their lives. He was a little dreamier, a little more laid back. one act of charity that his daughter's report was there was an elderly man that he walked home from the train station. Just so considerately and patiently with such gentleness. I think that tells a lot about his style of charity. You know that he was a gentleman and really attentive to this, this elderly man. Louie really liked pilgrimages, actually. He, really enjoyed the idea of pilgrimages and went on several, and Zellie made space for that. She supported him in that. She herself was not a big pilgrimage person, did not really, those that did not appeal to her. She actually hated traveling.

Nathan:

It was Louis who took young tours to mm-hmm. Um, to Rome. Well, of course her right, of course, was their sisters.

Sarah:

It was the Jubilee, deceased by

Nathan:

then. But

Sarah:

to see Pope. Leo, woo-hoo. The 13th, and now we have Pope Leo the 14th. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, Louis supported deli's, you know, preferences and really did so much to accommodate her and her style and her preferred activities. And likewise, she also just really honored him and, and helped and supported him.

Nathan:

And do you see, maybe part of this is. A softening of ourselves towards our spouse to allow ourselves to be influenced by them.

Mm-hmm.

Nathan:

Not simply, and so accommodating someone is one thing, but allowing my heart to be influenced by my wife or vice versa. Mm-hmm. That's like another level, right? Maybe. Oh gosh,

Sarah:

yes.

Nathan:

Zalie would've worked herself to the bone, but maybe she, we see in some of these dynamics. She's allowing herself to actually take on some of the goodness of Louis's. More like relaxed, receptivity.

Mm-hmm.

Nathan:

God's grace in a state of, not passive, but uh, receptive, like restful. Receptivity. Mm-hmm. Instead of constant driving.

Sarah:

And we see, you know, she didn't grow up with fun in her life. She wrote to her daughter, Pauline. My childhood was as sad as a winding sheet as like, you know, a sheet you would wrap a body in a corpse in, it's a, that's a pretty strong statement. But she developed the capacity for fun and I'm sure it was Louise. Influence because we have the story in St. Theres's story of a soul about, how her mom would, stop work for the afternoon and have a tea party with her daughters, and then mom would make it up later at night when they all went to bed. But she did that. She stopped and made time for fun, and I'm sure that was Louise's example of, you know, really enjoying time with kids, doing fun things with them.

Nathan:

It's beautiful.

Sarah:

Yeah. Right. So that's, it takes humility to that is

Nathan:

a real key right there notice,

Sarah:

right. To notice that the differences about my spouse aren't a deficiency, just because it's not my preference

Yes.

Sarah:

Nathan's laughing, but it's actually good, and that I. I can recognize the things I prefer are just that. They're just preferences

Nathan:

and that I can learn something from.

Sarah:

Mm-hmm.

Nathan:

My spouse

Sarah:

really look for their goodness and honor that. So that's tip number three. Respect and honor your different preferences. Oh. A follow up to 0.2 with rituals of connection.

Okay.

Sarah:

I mentioned the letters. Louis would write Zelle when he was away on a work trip. Zelle wrote a lot of letters also including to Louis. And that is another of their rituals of connection. That's a way they stay. The letters themselves stay connected. That's true. Yeah. Whenever they would, either of them had to go on a trip, they would write letters to the other, sometimes two a day actually.

Nathan:

And you know what? You don't actually have to. Go on a trip to write a letter to your spouse. Writing a love letter to your spouse is a really powerful and beautiful thing to try.

Sarah:

Yes. if you are intrigued and want to learn more about how Louis and Zli Mar's marriage, how the little way of of st theres the little way of love can bless your marriage. We invite you to join our free little wave of marriage workshop, which is available

Nathan:

online@littlewavemarriage.com. All

Sarah:

right, so that was it. Three tips from the happy marriage of Louis and Zli Maram, putting faith at the center, rituals of connection, and respecting and honoring your differences. Hope that's helpful for you and hope that's a blessing.

Nathan:

Well, thanks for having me on, Sarah.

Sarah:

Oh, thank you for joining me, Mr. Bartel. Alright, see you in the next episode.