The Five Spiritual Attacks to Expect While Fasting... with Denise Jelinek

When we fast, we can expect a pattern of five spiritual attacks--whether the fast is from food, behaviors like scrolling, people-pleasing, or other comforts.

The enemy works in our false attachments: to things, to false gods, and to false comforts. He likes to get us to put something above God in our life, and that creates disorder.

Fasting restores order.

It puts God back as the center of our life.

Of course the enemy will pursue our soul when we do this. 

Learn his tactics, learn that this is normal (you are not failing), and then learn how to gently and lovingly restore proper order after an attack. 

Denise Jelinek joins Sarah to break down the play book for each of these five attacks... and shares what to do about them.

They touch on authentic self-care and tie it all in to 

Join Denise in fasting from the scale and finding peace with food this Lent in her beautiful and deeply transformative 63 Surrendered Program! 

Ash Wednesday Sale: Get it for $1 a day (coupon code: Lent63)

Join here: https://weightlosswiththeholyspirit.com/

MORE RESOURCES

Free Enhancing Marital Intimacy Guide for Catholic Women: 9 Skills for Body, Mind, and Spirit (for married and engaged women)

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Transcript

Sarah 0:50

I'm so happy to welcome my friend Denise Jelinek as a guest today to share with us some ways to be savvy and aware of the spiritual attacks that are attracted by our good intentions to follow the impulses God has for us to bring us closer to him and grow in freedom. Denise is the coach at weight loss with the Holy Spirit, which is about so much more than just weight loss. It's about being truly free, and she's an expert in helping women really surrender what is holding them back from that freedom. So, Denise, welcome.

Denise 1:26

Thank you, Sarah. It is so exciting to be here.

Sarah 1:29

I'm so happy to have you again. We've talked before, um, on this podcast about body image and self care, and now as we prepare for Lent and to enter into Lent, this is so important to be thinking about what is God really asking us to, to surrender, to give up for Lent, and then what are the movements of the enemy when we begin to do that? So yeah. What can you tell us, Denise, about this dynamic that happens?

Denise 2:02

Yeah, and I think, um. As we get into Lent, we'll talk a little bit more about how to know what we should focus on or fast from. Mm-hmm. Um, in a little bit. But I want you to know that no matter what it is that the Lord reveals that he wants you to fast from, and he always wants us to fast from things that are standing in the way of us being closer to him. So, hey ladies, let's don't all just decide we're gonna give up sugar, or we're gonna give up wine or chocolate, or whatever the thing is that just pops in our brain, because that may not be the true thing that's standing in the way of you being closer to the Lord. So whatever it is that is truly standing in the way, the Lord will reveal that to you. But anytime we do give up something, it is prime, a prime target for the enemy to kick up his tact, his tactics, because the enemy's tactics are attachments, attachments to things, false gods, false comforts. What the enemy loves is to make something above God to create disorder in our life. And anytime that we're fasting, it restores order. It puts God back as the God of our life. And so I think when we experience spiritual attacks during Lent, number one, they're totally normal and expected. I want everyone, if the only thing you get from this podcast is to say, oh, of course this is normal and expected. And then the second thing is that it's an absolute amazing sign that you are getting closer to the Lord. And so whether it's at Lent or any other time that you are getting closer to the Lord, the enemy will be pursuing your soul as well. Because not only is God always pursuing your soul, the enemy is too. And so as you get closer to God, it is normal and expected for spiritual attacks to increase and it's a great sign.

Sarah 4:10

So we should be encouraged rather than discouraged when it gets hard when we feel these attacks, these temptations. Wow, that's beautiful.

Denise 4:19

Yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent.

Sarah 4:22

I just wanna step back a bit to that beautiful posture of listening, of asking the Lord for what it is that he would like us to surrender for. Lent. Can you talk more about it rather than just defaulting to Oh, just, you know, give up sugar, give up wine, give up chocolate. Um. Yeah. How can we go a little deeper and have that attitude of asking and listening?

Denise 4:49

Yeah. What I really encourage people to do is to say, Lord, to go and talk to him, Lord, what is it? What is it that's standing in the way of me being closer to you? Where am I seeking my comfort that isn't you?

Sarah 5:04

Ooh,

Denise 5:04

what am I running to when I feel sad and lonely? What am I using to soothe my emotions? And where you know, you'll have a false God is if you finish the sentence, I'll be okay if, and that will easily reveal an attachment or a false God. And it's very easy to think, um, I can use my own life, for example. Um, I'll be okay as long as I can. Eat a jar of peanut butter tonight, I'll be okay as long as I can, you know, have my glass of wine, I'll be okay. As long as my husband's in a good mood tonight.

Sarah 5:45

Mm-hmm.

Denise 5:46

It's wherever we're finding our peace in something that isn't God.

Sarah 5:51

Yeah. I'll be okay if I can scroll on my phone for half an hour. Yeah. Or

Denise 5:57

you know, and, and I don't say that for us to be scrupulous or super judgy about ourselves, I'm just saying that it will start to reveal an attachment, at least one. And I think we are gonna spend the rest of our lives allowing the Lord to reveal our attachments and then working to loosen our grip on them.

Sarah 6:19

Oh yeah.

Denise 6:19

This is just one lent of many more.

Sarah 6:23

Yeah.

Denise 6:23

But let's go back to real things. Real things that are truly having a, a detriment or holding us back from being closer to the Lord, from receiving his goodness, receiving his grace.

Sarah 6:38

Yes, I saw a beautiful chart one time that was on the left side. It was fast from, and then it had behaviors like criticism, complaining, overeating, um, just, you know, the, and then feast on and on the, there was the correlation on the right hand column of like praising and affirming feast on prayer, feast on self-control, you know, and so I thought that was nice to think about, like, let's fast from complaining and criticism as well. Sometimes it's our attitude, right? That we need to work on during Lent, not just what we're consuming or not.

Denise 7:17

I, I want to say that probably more, more important is our attitude. You know, before the, before we started recording, we were talking about the, the prevalence of women neglecting their own needs, denying themselves rest and play, dismissing or minimizing their own needs. And I think that those are the things that Wow. Feasting on feeling my feelings.

Sarah 7:47

Whoa.

Denise 7:48

Fasting from minimizing my emotions. Mm-hmm. I wish I could remember who said it, but it was somebody amazing in our, I feel like it was a church, a doctor, a doctor of the church that essentially said, the more we know ourselves, the more we know God.

Sarah 8:08

Ooh, wow. Yeah. And know, and, and know how God made us authentically to have legitimate needs, authentically for sleep, for food that's truly nourishing, for exercise, for prayer, for love. So those could all be areas where the Lord might be calling you into greater freedom. This Lent mm-hmm. Maybe fast from staying up past a normal, past, a reasonable bedtime. You know, feast on seven, minimum hours of sleep a night, um, fast from people pleasing, right? Yes. Feast on being okay with other people being unhappy with you when you set reasonable boundaries. I wish there was a snappier way to say that, but

Denise 8:52

No, there is, there is. I have one.

Sarah 8:55

Oh, let's hear it.

Denise 8:56

I give other people the dignity and respect to have their own opinions and to make their own decisions for their lives. Have their own opinions to have their own experience of life, to have their own journey. And I just like to say I give them the dignity and respect to be that way.

Sarah 9:15

Wow.

Denise 9:17

Because they don't need to be a certain way for me to feel safe. Like they can be grumpy Mc sters. And that's fine.

Sarah 9:26

And you're still okay? I'm still okay.

Denise 9:28

Yeah.

Sarah 9:29

Yeah.

Denise 9:30

That takes a lot of work. I'm gonna tell you that took years of work.

Sarah 9:34

Oh yes.

Denise 9:35

But it, I mean, it's, it's hard to do. But the truth is, ladies, is that when we are, when we are, when our piece is being stolen simply because another person is agitated, oh, I hate saying it this way, but it's, that is one of the tactics of the enemy. Mm-hmm. I have. I think it was in, um, is it Jacques Philippe's book that is maintaining,

Sarah 10:01

seeking and Maintaining peace.

Denise 10:02

Seeking And Maintaining

Sarah 10:03

peace?

Denise 10:04

Yes. He says in there that when you have peace in your heart, sometimes the enemy will go agitate other humans near you to get to steal your peace.

Sarah 10:13

Whoa.

Denise 10:16

And I just want us to, that's what this conversation is. This conversation is to open our eyes so that we can easily call out, oh, there's that grumpy guy. He's being grumpy, and then I can still have peace.

Sarah 10:27

Mm-hmm. Or that grumpy kid. Right.

Denise 10:29

That grumpy

Sarah 10:30

kid. Like we think our peace depends on all my kids being happy at the same time have help us, haven't help any mother who is living that lie. Because it's kind of rare, right? For all your kids to be happy at the same time. Yeah. But you can still be at peace and happy even if Absolutely. Or multiple kids are dysregulated at any given moment. We'll, okay, these were some really good. Ideas and brainstorms about what, what the Lord might be calling us to this Lent that's, it's a little deeper and leads to more freedom and wholeness. Mm-hmm. So say we've given up criticism or emotional eating or, or the glass of wine or people pleasing for Lent, and then what happens? How do these spiritual attacks come? Okay. As the devil pursues our soul? Yeah. Simultaneously with God pursuing it.

Denise 11:24

The goal of this entire podcast also is just so all of you ladies say, oh, okay. Now I'll start to be able to recognize that and you'll know what to do.

Sarah 11:34

Mm-hmm.

Denise 11:34

Anytime that we give up something. Or start pursuing something, we are going to have obsessive thoughts or cravings of the thing. So what I mean by that is, let's say you give up people pleasing, your body will notice that you're not fawning over someone. Your body will want to go down that neuro pathway. Your brain will want to go down that neuro pathway. So just notice that whatever you are choosing to fast from you are going to have this. Your body and your brain will notice that something is different and will want to do that. So what can happen, like let's say you give up scrolling and you take off some apps off your phone. You'll still pick up your phone and your finger will like. Something

Sarah 12:23

place. Oh, I've done that. I've stripped apps off. And then you still poke where Instagram used to be on your phone.

Denise 12:30

Yeah. The the point is, is just let's recognize that your brain is used to that, a certain neuro pathway, and now that thing is missing. And you will start to maybe, maybe you didn't give up scrolling, you gave up the wine, but now you'll start to scroll or you'll start to do something else,

Sarah 12:49

a

Denise 12:49

conversation, and it's just not a problem. Yeah, I think, I think all of us, I want us to all see ourselves do it and to say, oh, there, I'm doing that thing. Okay. And it's just a human thing. So let's not fall into despair and self-hate, which is another spiritual attack. Ooh. But a way to counter this is to, number one, just notice we're doing it and not judge it. And number two, let's increase our self-care. So let's say for example, the Lord did call you to give up. Um, let's say it was like your seven o'clock bowl of ice cream. Or he said, you know what? That, that seven o'clock bowl of ice cream really turns into a whole gallon. And so you, you say, all right, Lord, I'm gonna give up overeating ice cream at night. So now let's create a new neural pathway. And one thing that we can do is instead of going to sit on the couch at night, maybe we can go get snuggled up in our bed with some tea and Netflix. Let's just create other pleasurable things. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3 13:56

Horrible things

Denise 13:57

that we can do. If you're giving up people pleasing, maybe you can intentionally start serving that person or doing something kind from a place of love instead of reactive people. Pleasing.

Sarah 14:10

Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's so good.

Denise 14:16

So let's just think ahead just a little bit on that. Whatever the Lord's asking us to release from, I it, you know, let's go back to the, the diagram you saw, which was on the left fast from this, but feast and, and focus on the feasting side. So whatever the opposite of your thing would be.

Sarah 14:33

Right? Add in. Maybe instead of scrolling, pick up the Bible. A paper Bible, like with printed words on paper. And read. Read truly the word of God, or play with your kids, or, I don't know, do a crossword puzzle or take a little walk. Something that's fun and relaxing and nourishing.

Denise 14:53

Yeah. Plan ahead. Definitely plan ahead. Because your body is going to freak out in the moment that it's missing the thing. Mm-hmm. And I want you to say, oh yeah, but this is what we're doing.

Sarah 15:02

Yeah. That's so nice. That's reassuring. Like, it's okay. Little self, you'll get a nice thing. So.

Denise 15:09

Yeah. I'm not depriving you. I think so often we, um, believe that when we're fasting it should feel like really horrible and like punitive.

Sarah 15:19

Mm-hmm.

Denise 15:19

And I don't think the Lord is punishing us. He just wants that thing out of the way so he can really, truly allow us to receive his goodness in love.

Sarah 15:28

Mm, that's so good.

Denise 15:33

Okay. So the second thing is that when we're making progress at Lent and we might find ourselves, you know, actually fasting and it's going well, we can start to fall into pride and being glory. Look at me. I'm so great. I'm so strong. And what we get to do, and, and he, the reason this happens is because the devil can't create anything, but he can twist it. And so as we're growing in virtue, he can sort of twist that around to make us start looking at, uh, ourselves instead of the Lord. So when good things happen, we're like, wow, look at me. And when bad things happen, like maybe we picked up our phone and we started scrolling, oh, I'm such a failure and what

Sarah 16:16

we want, it's still looking at me, isn't it?

Denise 16:18

I'm still looking at me. Right?

Sarah 16:19

Oh,

Denise 16:20

goodness. So what we want to do is say, oh, all by the grace of God for everything good, this is only possible by your grace Lord. So giving him all the glory. And then when we, if we fall, then we just say, Lord, help me, pick me back up.

Sarah 16:36

Aw. Asking for help. Wow. Wow.

Denise 16:42

Right. And it just thwarts the, the enemy's little tactic.

Sarah 16:46

Oh my goodness. I feel like asking for help might even be a good Lenin resolution, like fast from over-functioning

Denise 16:53

and

Sarah 16:54

feast on asking for help. But I love this asking for help from the Lord who is all powerful, who loves us, and who does send his help and is present to us. That's beautiful. Always.

Denise 17:09

Mm-hmm.

Sarah 17:09

Do you have a story, maybe a little anecdote, about like a time this happened with someone you worked with or with you where you asked for help and then you saw how he sent it? Because I think sometimes we think, oh, if we asked for help, is God really gonna come through for us?

Denise 17:30

That is so interesting. I feel like every

Speaker 3 17:34

story is amazing.

Sarah 17:36

Yes.

Denise 17:37

Um, I will say, if I look at my own food journey, I prayed and prayed and prayed and prayed and prayed. You guys, um, I, if you haven't heard my story, I was a closet binge eater. I was stand in the corner of my pantry eating jars of peanut butter, dumping chocolate chips in it. And the point is, is I would feel like garbage about myself when I'd go to bed and I'd wake up the next morning and just pray, Lord, help me, Lord, help me Lord, help me, Lord, help me. And I felt like he was not answering my prayers, but what I realized is that I was still not surrendering. I was in what I call number five spiritual attack, which was ungodly self-reliance. I believed it was all up to me. So although I was asking for his help, I still. Didn't believe that he could do anything. I thought I was still having the belief like, well, it's up to me what I put in my mouth. I was still like mean girl, critical, judgmental, hypervigilant on my own behavior that I wasn't hands out like on my back, flat, willing to surrender and say, Lord, whatever you want, I'll do. And I say that because that's where he finally had to get me to, to where I truly said, truly Lord, I don't care. I'll do anything you say. And I don't know if I, I hope what you're hearing in my story was that my heart posture when I was just doing panic prayers, Lord, help me stop eating. Help me stop eating. Help me stop eating was way different than when he got me so desperate that I said, Lord, I'll do anything.

Sarah 19:24

Yeah. Whatever it takes, right? Yeah.

Denise 19:26

My heart posture changed to a place of surrender. So I think that's, that's the truth, is that if we believe it's still all up to us, he cannot help us if we're still holding our burden and our trouble. He's like, um, you're holding it. How can I take it from you? Yes. And I love to say we have to set it down so that he can come and pick it up. Yeah. I'm gonna say that again. We have to set it down so he can come and pick it up. And it looks so different, I think, of the women who are in your groups who want to improve their intimacy with their husbands, and they have got to set down dismissing their own enjoyment. Need that is a God-given need for play, safety and rest and safety.

Sarah 20:31

Mm-hmm.

Denise 20:33

They have to say, oh Lord, what? I'm gonna set it down so you can give it to me to lead me in those areas, but I promise you, you guys, he'll take it. But he needs us to give it. And until we feel safe enough or until he lets us get desperate enough, which is such a gift, I love to call it the gift of desperation because once you're desperate, boy we are, you're just putty in his hands.

Sarah 21:08

Yes. Yes. And it's a gift, you know, to see your own need and then to have that grace to just surrender. Um. I will share that over Christmas. You know, I had done really, I had, I had found the beautiful small miracle actually from working with you, Denise, last year in some of your programs of the miracle of seeing myself be sugar free.

Denise 21:33

Mm-hmm.

Sarah 21:33

And having peace with food was so beautiful. And then lots of emotional noise over the Christmas and holiday season. I was back in sugar. I have daughters at home baking sugary things. And anyway, sugar came back in a big way into my life. Yeah. And I was feeling pretty bummed about that. And then, um, lovely nutritionist I was working with, um, said, no, I love those times, Sarah, because that just, it proves to us, you know, that, that this is a problem for us. Like we see our need. It's true. I felt gross eating so much sugar and knowing that, like for me, I can't ever have just a little bit of sugar. Mm-hmm. Or it's very rare. It turns into a big amount and then, and so now I just yeah. Can surrender it again and just know that like, this is a need that I need, you know, it's a burden that I am gonna lay down. God's given me the grace to show me that again, and he lets us, you know, he gives us such freedom to, to make our own choices and do whatever we want, and then to be there when we come back to him, um mm-hmm. Ready to carry that burden for us again. And I just love so much, Denise, how the surrender novena is like a bedrock core of the work that you do with women. It's just so good. In fact, I'll link that in the show notes because it really helps us develop that heart posture.

Denise 22:58

It really is. And I think Sarah, um, to your point of when the Lord allows you to find out something that is separating you from being who he wants you to be or how he wants you to be, or being closer to you, let's say it was sugar. In this example, you just have so much peace. You're like, sugar's not safe for me. That's not the woman I wanna be. And it feels so slow and you have that conviction and you're not fighting sugar.

Sarah 23:25

Mm-hmm.

Denise 23:26

I mean, you might have some grief around it, but it, but it's clear to you that it does not serve you.

Sarah 23:33

Mm-hmm.

Denise 23:34

And that's, I think, the benefit of talking to the Lord about what we give up at Lent. It really helps inform us of like, oh no, this is the thing that Will, will bring you closer to me. Me, God, not me. Denise.

Sarah 23:47

Yes. Okay. You mentioned number five, spiritual attack. Mm-hmm. Can you walk us through all five of these common spiritual attacks and then how women can spot them?

Denise 23:57

Yeah. So the first one, like we said, was, um, intensified cravings, obsessive thoughts. The second one is pride VA and or pride and vein glory. The third one is, uh, discouragement and loss of motivation. And all that means is you're mentally exhausted and emotionally exhausted. Whenever you give up something emotionally, you are using that thing emotionally. That thing served a purpose. So when you're not having the thing you're fasting from, you're gonna have emotional needs unmet.

Sarah 24:29

Mm-hmm.

Denise 24:29

And it's very important that you find a way to meet those emotional needs. Otherwise you are gonna feel like you're white knuckling and becoming so exhausted from giving up whatever you decided to give up, that you'll emotionally become exhausted. You will have discouragement, you will feel like you're just going through the motions, and likely you will turn back to whatever it is. You'll lose motivation too fast. Now I need everyone to hear me very clearly on this. If you are in Lent, and you go back to the thing that you were fasting from, let's say for example, you start fawning all over someone and people pleasing, that's not a problem. When I was preparing this, the Lord showed me a truth. He said, Denise, the enemy does not win by what we do. And you guys know the enemy never wins because the Lord can redeem everything. Mm-hmm.

Sarah 25:32

But

Denise 25:33

the enemy wins when we believe who he says we are.

Sarah 25:39

Whoa. Identity.

Denise 25:42

Yes. And so that is the fourth spiritual attack is called despair and self-hate. When you see yourself. Have the thing, and you get into that shame SPI cycle, which is the ungodly self-reliance again and the the VA glory believing that it's all up to me. We just keep looking at ourselves and we're just in that shame cycle. And guess where we are? We are stuck right in a lot of the ball of spiritual attacks.

Sarah 26:15

Mm-hmm.

Denise 26:18

And so to get out of that, instead of I'm such a failure, I can't believe I did that, I hate myself. We can pull ourselves out by two questions. And the two questions, if we see ourselves fall, which is so human, is what do I now know?

Sarah 26:39

Ooh.

Denise 26:40

There was something that we needed to know that allowed that, that the Lord allowed that to happen. He needed to teach us something. So we say, Lord, what do I now know? What did you need to teach me? And number two, where do I need more care and support? Because we would've never fallen if we had had the care and support that we needed.

Sarah 27:05

Wow. Yes.

Denise 27:07

Those two questions. Yeah.

Sarah 27:09

So how could I have supported myself better, or asked for help? Gotten more support in place? Mm-hmm.

Denise 27:16

Yeah. And you know what? It can be that woman who has been fasting from overt tasking, and she said, I'm just gonna fold this laundry, just this one basket of laundry. And then she found herself staying up over, you know, too late and. Then maybe fell into a few more other tasks or overdoing or, you know, a friend called and she said yes right away. And you know, you can just find yourself, maybe you had that second glass of wine when you said you'd only have one glass. It just doesn't matter what the thing is. The Lord doesn't care what the thing is. He just doesn't, he cares more in why we're doing the thing, and that's what he wants to heal us from.

Sarah 28:04

Wow.

Denise 28:04

Because the only reason we're we're running to anything is because we believe we need it to get through life. We believe that it's helping us. And I honestly believe that a lot of those things, whether it was food or wine or people pleasing at one point in our life, it really served us.

Sarah 28:26

Mm-hmm.

Denise 28:29

And then it gets to a point where now it's making our, it's taking things away from our lives. Including our connection with the Lord. And truly for me, it was a lot of my self-worth and self-confidence went down the tubes too when I saw myself eating that way.

Sarah 28:43

Mm-hmm. Belief in our ourself. Do these five spiritual attacks, do they, how do I say this? Like, does one lead to the next to and then to the next? Like, are they linked sequentially? Does that make sense? Like when you, I

Denise 29:00

mean,

Sarah 29:00

I then you get to four next or

Denise 29:03

Yeah. It's, it's kind of like everybody has their own, their own cocktail. I think the devil knows which one to start with.

Speaker 3 29:10

Mm-hmm.

Denise 29:12

And as crazy as it sounds. Okay.

Speaker 3 29:15

That's so funny. That's so pride and vain glory, the way I just said that. No, no,

Denise 29:19

but the, the lord, I mean, the devil knows that he can get into me fast by me accomplishing things. Because I'm like, oh my gosh, that was so amazing, and I have to be so quick to say thank you, God. Wow. By the grace of God.

Sarah 29:35

Yeah,

Denise 29:36

because that's where the enemy really gets into mind, I think as long as we're clear on the front door. Yeah. Or the first door, let's say

Sarah 29:45

Uhhuh at

Denise 29:45

the enemy takes then. Then it, it can be a cascade from there.

Sarah 29:51

Yeah. Can you say the number four, one again? That one really caught my ear. Was that that was like the despair and self hatred. Was that

Denise 29:58

what it was? Yes. Despair and self-hate. And again, you guys, I think this is the most powerful one because this is when we start believing who the enemy says we are.

Speaker 3 30:10

Mm-hmm.

Denise 30:12

I just wanna cry every time I think of that, I mean, this is that woman who says, I'm not worth it. Everybody else is more important. And you guys, you are not more important than other humans. But you are as important as other humans.

Sarah 30:29

Mm-hmm. I, I think that is so important for every woman, every wife to know. Um, I'm just going to apply that to my topic area here of sex and marriage. If your marital intimacy, you're not more important than your husband, you're delight in your love making. It's not more important than his, but it is as important as his, and it's definitely not less important than his, which I think a lot of Catholic and Christian wives go around thinking really his delight, his pleasure, his satisfaction, his, I'm putting this in air quotes needs, right? Mm-hmm. That those really matter most and, mm. I'm just really here to make sure that gets taken care of my own. Enjoyment, safety, delight, sense of, you know, sense of security. Right? That's, it doesn't really matter. Who am I? I'm not worth it. And that's such a lie, right? That is such a lie. Lie of the enemy.

Denise 31:37

Yes. That, oh gosh, that is just such a lie. Again, my heart just sinks. Anytime women minimize their experience, minimize their needs, dismiss them, believe that someone else is more important, that the Lord has, or that the Lord doesn't care. He's like, oh, that's that, that I, I mean, I think the Lord cares about every detail of our life, and I don't think the Lord cares about how much we weigh what we eat, how much sex we are or are not having. But what I do think the Lord cares about is anything that, any area of our life that we are not talking to him about. Or any area that we're trying to hold on our own. That's where he says, hang on, let me in. Let me tell you my truth.

Sarah 32:27

Yes. His truth, right? Because he loves us and we can't control it all and manage it all on our own. It's really is his work in us. Um, gosh. Okay. Denise, I had this thought. What was. What's going on there in my head when we were talking about despair, low self-worth. Okay. I'm just, I'm picturing the despair and self-hatred that comes after you've, you know, from my experience, I've been scrolling for a long time after having resolved not to, or, you know, the woman with the jar of peanut butter and the chocolate chips. I've been that woman too. I've been all these women. Um, and then you're like, oh, that, like, why, you know, we feel unworthy and then we're, and then we sort of give up on ourselves, right? That's what despair is. We give up on ourselves and we feel like, well, I didn't earn the good stuff. I didn't earn God's favor, my behavior didn't earn, you know what? Like that image of myself is a woman of dignity. Um, so since, yeah. And then we, we start just treating ourselves like garbage more. Mm-hmm. And it's so beautiful to know. God looks at us and he just loves us. He just keeps loving us. He's like, I know I saw you there scrolling for the last hour when you, when you meant to go pray the rosary or, you know, fold the lawn or whatever. And I'm still here and I still love you and you're still a good woman. You're still my beloved daughter. And you're still worthy. Right? Like, just, just come to me. Just lay it at my feet. Come to me, let go. Surrender it. Let's start fresh. I love how Jacques Philippe talks about that in his book that you mentioned earlier too, right? The seeking for and maintaining peace just as quickly as possible. Turn back to him.

Denise 34:18

Yeah. And that's why I wanted to give you guys those two questions. I mean, of course we have the sacraments, please. Like,

Sarah 34:23

yes,

Denise 34:24

absolutely. We, we will use the sacrament of confession. Um, in our community, we have a targeted, um, examination of conscience because no matter what your thing is, typically you have specific sins that go with that. And so for women who've struggled with food and weight, we have a targeted examination of conscience. So you can really look at that. And so my point is that targeted use of these sacraments, use of the sacraments enjoyment and of them is so important. But to your point of why you said, get back to the Lord as quick as possible, and that let's just leverage the way our human brains work and our brains are going to focus on what. They're used to focusing on unless we direct them on what to focus on. And so if you are prone to despair and self-hate, your brain will just automatically start thinking that, that's why I wanted to give you those two other questions so that you can direct your brain and give it a job to do.

Sarah 35:24

Mm-hmm. Can you remind us what the

Denise 35:27

questions are? I will. Those two questions are what do I now know?

Sarah 35:31

Mm-hmm.

Denise 35:32

If we see ourselves scrolling for an hour now, what do I know? What did I learn from that?

Sarah 35:37

Mm-hmm.

Denise 35:38

And going forward, where can I care and support for myself more? So what care and support did I need that I didn't get at that point?

Sarah 35:49

Yeah.

Denise 35:50

Okay. And, um, I don't, so we got a dog about four years ago, and one of the things that we learned when we were training our dog was don't tell him what not to do. Tell him what to do. Hmm. And it was interesting because we were training him to, while we vacuumed, to not chase the vacuum cleaner, so we had to train him to go sit in this specific place while we were vacuuming.

Sarah 36:14

Aw.

Denise 36:15

And so we would keep giving him treats or when we were mopping the floor'cause he would chase the mop. And so we told him what to do. And our brains are kind of like that. We have to train our brain, Hey brain, I'm the one in charge. Let's, let's align our brain with the Holy Spirit and just tell them what to focus on.

Sarah 36:33

Yes. And that actually, that is what works for me. To avoid scrolling after a busy day where my brain is fried now I've chosen my good behavior. My little corner, like the the doggies corner to go sit in Yeah. Is to sit down with a book and give myself permission just to read, read a nice juicy literature book. So for my book club, and it's so much more restorative than scrolling. It's truly like nourishing me and. Um, and now I know, I know. I'm like, okay, I'm tempted to pick up my phone or a laptop and just start scrolling, but I'm gonna pick up my book instead and just go sit in my comfy chair. Maybe I'll put a blanket on, maybe I'll make tea. It could just be as simple as just sitting and reading. So that's, yeah, that's what works for me.

Denise 37:20

I love that.

Sarah 37:21

Well, that, yeah. Denise, what are you leading women in for Lent? Tell us if women want to just go on a journey with you as they enter to Lent, where can they find you? What are you up to?

Denise 37:33

So, what I find most women are finding comfort in or creating a false God out of, or saying I'll be okay if

Sarah 37:43

mm-hmm.

Denise 37:43

Is the number on the scale. I'll be okay as long as the number on the scale says something. So we're leaning to the scale as a way to, as their identity, to affirm them, to tell them they're doing the right thing, instead of really listening to the Lord and caring for themselves the way the Lord wants them to eating food in a way that they enjoy that's peaceful. So I lead them in a fast called, um, 63, surrendered. It's 63 days, but we're fasting from the scale and instead of dieting, we are allowing the Lord to restore them to a healthy weight, not by using the scale, but by learning how to eat foods that they enjoy in a way that they don't feel guilty about, or that they're not afraid that they're going to overeat.

Speaker 3 38:32

And

Denise 38:33

so it's a 63 day journey. We start in Lent and then we carry on so that those skills, um, go even beyond Lent because I don't think anything, anybody gives up things for Lent that they wanna start back on Easter Monday.

Sarah 38:46

Mm-hmm.

Denise 38:47

No, nobody does that. So people can go to weight loss with the Holy spirit.com and get their spot.

Sarah 38:52

I'll link that in the show notes. I love that. You know, I do not own a scale. There's no scale in our house. And yeah, I learned this years and years ago that I have a much peaceful, much more peaceful, happy woman, but I'm not looking at the scale daily or, you know, I started, I put it in the garage for a while, but then I would like go trundle down there and haul it out and then, yeah. And then my whole day would be a good day or a bad day based on what I saw there. Yeah. And I didn't wanna have that power. I didn't want something else to have that kind of power over me. Mm-hmm. So I'm here to testify. It is a beautiful life, and when you can go scale free and it's doable. You know Right. If you need to know your weight for a medical appointment or whatnot, there are other ways to do it. Um, weigh in at the office or whatnot. But yeah. That's so beautiful. 63 surrendered and Right. The Surrender novena is this part of, part of the work? Right.

Denise 39:48

Yeah. There's four spiritual disciplines that we do every day, and the Surrender novena is one of them.

Sarah 39:53

Hmm. So

Denise 39:54

good. And it just, yeah, retrains our brain, retrains our, um, beliefs about our body and food and weight, and has really lasting effects, meaning women are restored to their healthy weight by doing these practices because it allows the God, God's grace to come in and heal them. He is so good. He is so faithful.

Sarah 40:15

He is so good and so faithful. Truly. You know, and like a lot of American women, I've done so many different diets and then I did intuitive eating and I, you know, I got therapy for binge eating. And my therapist taught me about intuitive eating and, and then I thought, well, but I could still, you know, still work, still try to lose weight and got, went back to dieting even after therapy. And it's such a roller coaster. It's such a roller coaster. Yeah. It is not where freedom is. And I and Denise doing your work with you is truly where I found lasting peace with food. It's just that I just want to, you know, give that witness as someone who's been through it, I really feel God can meet you here and lead you into freedom and into not measuring your worth, you know, by weight loss success or not. Or you know that your success as a woman, a daughter of God is your freedom and your walk with, with him and how close you are to him. And I just really love that. That is the ultimate goal, Denise, of what you do. That this is fully, you know, wrapped up in our, our Catholic. Vision of who the human person is, who the woman is, and in spiritual life. So, and, but not ignoring, you know, how the brain works and what our bodies need. And it's really realistic and so supportive and so loving. So just wanna encourage every woman who has had it, who is like, been there, done that, and had it with all the other rollercoaster yo-yos of, of dieting. This may be what you've been looking for. This may be where you find that freedom and peace. So

Denise 41:59

yeah,

Sarah 41:59

check it out in the show note 63 surrendered. Thank you so much, Denise. It's always such a joy to speak with you. I hear the Holy Spirit through your words and through your tone of encouragement of invitation. So thank you for being that vessel for him.

Denise 42:15

Thank you, Sarah. Thank you so much. Happy Lynn?

Sarah 42:18

Yes. Okay. God bless you ladies. You can do it. You are beloved. Remember that the Lord delights in you. See you in the next episode.